John 3 - You Must Be Born Again with Daniel Moore - 48

Special guest Daniel Moore joins us this week as we walk through John 3. Nicodemus shows up with status, influence, and Bible knowledge, and Jesus responds with a single, disruptive truth: you must be born again. That moment in John 3 is a mirror for anyone who has ever leaned on religious effort, church habits, or “being a good person” and still felt the ache that something is missing. We talk through why Nicodemus comes at night, what Jesus is really saying about new birth, and how the Holy Spirit brings an inward transformation that no amount of external performance can produce. 

We also dig into the meaning of being born of water and the Spirit and why Jesus compares the Spirit’s work to the wind. Along the way, we get practical about spiritual growth and discipleship: prayer, time in God’s Word, worship, and real fellowship with believers who pursue Jesus. If you feel stuck, we name common barriers like unforgiveness and unconfessed sin and why repeated surrender is often part of real maturity, not a reason for shame. 

Then we slow down for John 3:16-21, not as a slogan, but as the heart of the gospel: God’s sacrificial love for a fallen world, belief as active trust and submission, and Jesus as rescue from a condemnation the world is already under. We close with John the Baptist’s humility in John 3:22-36, where jealousy fades, and joy takes its place: “He must increase, and I must decrease.” If you’ve been asking what to do with Jesus, this conversation will press that question all the way to the center. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave us a review so more people can find the truth of God’s Word.

Connecting the Gap Ministries:

Visit their website: connectingthegap.net
Facebook, Instagram, and X: @ctgaponline
Email: daniel@connectingthegap.net

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Daniel Moore

Kim McIntire 0:09

Welcome everyone to the It's Time to Rise Up podcast. I'm your host, Kim McIntire, joined by my co-host Amber Sampson. Hey Amber. Hi. We pray you're encouraged, strengthened, challenged, and blessed by what is spoken today. If you are not familiar with our show, please check out our website at it'stimetoriseup.org. There you'll find our social media links. And for our podcast platforms, you can find us on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and everywhere else you find your podcast. We want to welcome Daniel Moore back into the studio. Hey Daniel.

Daniel Moore 0:42

Hello.

Kim McIntire 0:42

Daniel has been a guest on our podcast several times. If you go back, you can find him on episode two entitled The Prayer Tunnel, where he was joined with his wife, Michelle. Episode 18 was a marriage on their inter an interview on their marriage entitled Honesty in Marriage. Episode 30 was an interview over his recently published book, Marriage on a Mission. Daniel, Amber, and I are so glad that you're here. You're our podcast producer, but you also host your own podcast. Tell us about that.

Daniel Moore 1:15

Yeah, I host actually two with my wife, uh Marriage Life and More. So that's a marriage-based podcast. Uh we release an episode every Thursday for that one. Right. And then I still have my Bible study one, which I've been doing for almost about five and a half years now, actually. Uh that one's more Bible study and that kind of thing, but going through the book of Isaiah right now.

Kim McIntire 1:37

And that's connecting the gap. Yes. And that's connecting the gap, right?

Daniel Moore 1:42

It's connecting the gap. Yeah.

Kim McIntire 1:43

Right. Link those with this episode, please. We'll do. So our listeners can tune into your podcast episodes. Um, you're also an author, a newly published author, a marriage counsel counselor, and many other titles. And I'm tongue-tied tonight, listeners. I'm sorry. Forgive me, just being real here. Welcome back, Daniel. Thank you for being willing to be here to open the word with us and to talk about the truths that we find in John chapter three. So, right now, our podcast is in an ongoing series. We're going through the Gospel of John, and we just want to encourage our listeners, go back and listen to chapter one and chapter two. Um, if you're able right now, grab your Bible and a notebook, join in on the reading of God's Word and the conversation that we're gonna have. Daniel, Amber, and I are just friends who are sitting around this table talking about the truths of God's word. And it's our prayer that God speaks directly to your heart through this episode. So let's begin by reading chapter three, and we're gonna divide it into sections. So we're gonna do that now. But before we do, I would really love to just say a prayer over our listeners. Okay, guys? That'll work. All right, will you join me?

Daniel Moore 2:56

Sure.

Opening Prayer For Listeners

Kim McIntire 2:58

Father God, we thank you for this opportunity to read your word. We're inviting your Holy Spirit, oh God, to lead everything that is spoken, everything that is heard, that your Holy Spirit would actually be a filter for every ear and every heart. We only want listeners to hear what is truly your heart, God, what is your truth, what is your word. It's really not about our opinions or perspectives, though we have those, but what it's really about is, God, what are you speaking to your people through this word and how can we take it and live it out in our everyday lives? So, Father, would you reveal those truths and promises and principles and even challenges, God? Would you reveal those to our hearts through the power of your Holy Spirit? Guide Amber and Daniel and I as we navigate this text with humility and help us to handle it, God, with integrity. We pray and we ask all of these things in the holy name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

Daniel Moore 4:07

Amen.

Kim McIntire 4:08

Amen. So

John 3:1-15 Read Aloud

Kim McIntire 4:09

here we go. We're gonna start with verse one and we're gonna read through 15, then we're gonna take a pause and have some discussion. Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus, who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. He came to Jesus at night and said, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God, for no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him. Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again. How can someone be born when they are old? Nicodemus asked. Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother's womb to be born. Jesus answered, Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, You must be born again. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. How can this be? Nicodemus asked. You are Israel's teacher, said Jesus, and do you not understand these things? Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. I have spoken to you of earthly things, and you do not believe. How then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven, the Son of Man. Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.

Nicodemus At Night And Motives

Kim McIntire 6:13

And there we will pause. I forgot to mention I'm reading this evening out of the NIV. So here we are with a man named Nicodemus. What are what are our thoughts just regarding who Nicodemus is and why is he there?

Daniel Moore 6:32

Well, Nicodemus was, as it states, he's part of the Pharisees. And of course, the Pharisees in the Bible, they really operated on works. They wanted everybody to look at me, see me. I'm keeping the biblical truths of the Bible, I'm walking out my Christian life. But unfortunately, a lot of it was just a lot of show. And so Nicodemus, he he wasn't necessarily, he wasn't an atheist or a pagan or any type of person like that. Um, he was just unfortunately part of a group of people that instead of getting deep into the word and letting it get inside of them, right, uh they taught and and you know, everything was exterior to them. It was superficial.

Kim McIntire 7:19

Right.

Daniel Moore 7:20

And but what's interesting, you know, is I was reading through some of this text here as we we first got in the first verses, uh, you know, Jesus he understood who Nicodemus was and knew what Nicodemus stood for, and he knew that he was highly educated because they were very highly educated in scripture. Uh they you know, they were teachers. I mean the Bible says that they taught. They were the teachers and the leaders of the in the church at that time, respected in society. But Jesus immediately, as soon as he started talking to Nicodemus, he cut right through all of Nicodemus's religious accomplishments and all the the things that the Nicodemus kind of held kind of in an arrogant way almost, because they were very arrogant, the Pharisees were. Um, you know, he started mentioning the well, what you gotta go back in my mother's womb, you know. Right. And when I read that, I kind of I sense myself a little bit of sarcasm right um in that statement, a little bit of a sarcastic tone. Um he's asking Jesus, you know, can can a man really do that? Can he really enter the his mother's womb and be born again? And but you know, we all understand Jesus was speaking spiritually in that moment.

Kim McIntire 8:49

Right.

Daniel Moore 8:49

And you know, humanity as a whole, a lot of times we don't always look at things that way. And and so I, you know, there's lots of times that even as I've talked to people that uh about biblical things and they don't quite understand what's going on, they they kind of look at it from the worldly perspective, from the human eye side of things. And I've seen sarcasm before in other people. So Nicodemus wasn't alone. It's not like he was the only person I think that would have responded in this way. Um but in all in in all reality, what Nicodemus needed was he needed a new nature inside of him. He needed a re a rebirth, which is what Jesus was speaking to him, to for him to understand that you know church attendance, biblical knowledge, um, you know, being able to teach the masses, all of that stuff wasn't going to get him where he thought it was going to.

Kim McIntire 9:42

Yeah.

Daniel Moore 9:43

And that's what he was, you know, trying to get across to Nicodemus.

Kim McIntire 9:46

You know, I was thinking about how Nicodemus came to Jesus, you know, was um um ruling a member of the council, a member of the Jewish ruling council. And as far as I know in the gospels, correct me if I'm wrong, Amber or Daniel, but as far as I know in the Gospels, there's not a record of a Pharisee or any member of like the religious rulers actually going to Jesus. Is that correct?

Daniel Moore 10:17

Not that I'm aware of.

Kim McIntire 10:19

So that that stood out to me. Yeah. It stands out to me also, and I def I'm tracking with you completely on what you're ta saying about him, but but to just think about this for a moment, like he is the one noted. So if there were others, we don't know about it. Yeah. But he's the one who's noted. When does he choose to go?

Daniel Moore 10:41

At night.

Kim McIntire 10:42

He chooses to go at night. He's obviously not a believer, although he recognizes there's something going on with Jesus.

Amber Sampson 10:51

Yeah, I think he does. He says, Your miraculous signs are evidence that God is with you.

Kim McIntire 10:55

That's what God is with you. That's the NLT version. Right. So I shouldn't say not a believer, obviously a believer in God. But not a follower in the world. But he's not yeah, he's not a follower.

Amber Sampson 11:06

Yeah, he's following the rules. He's not following. But I think it's curious.

Kim McIntire 11:11

I think he's curious. He's curious. That's what I'm saying. And and here's the other thing, too. Up into the up to this point in the ministry of Jesus, who's approaching him? People who have needs, people who are broken, people who need healing, people who know someone that's demon-possessed, you know, my child has been tormented by this evil spirit. They need help. People pursuing Christ for help in in some regard.

Daniel Moore 11:43

Yeah.

Kim McIntire 11:44

And I feel like he's approaching different Jesus with a different approach. Like, I want to know something.

Daniel Moore 11:52

Yeah.

Kim McIntire 11:52

Not I need you to do something for me. Does that make sense to you guys? I think that's a good idea. I just think that that the fact that he did go really stands out to me. He went.

Amber Sampson 12:04

Well, yeah, I don't know. I heard somewhere along the way that if if he would have got that he came at night because if he would have got caught, the I mean he would have been in major trouble with the other Pharisees. I don't know if that's true, but that's what I've heard. And so that's they say that's why he went at night. I also read in some a commentary that that another possibility of why he came at night was because he wanted Jesus like alone. Like he wanted that one-on-one time with them. And I thought, well, I don't know if that's true or not either, but I love that idea.

Daniel Moore 12:35

Yeah.

Kim McIntire 12:36

Well, it was either the fear of man or he wanted time with Jesus alone. Yeah. I mean, maybe there were some other options for why he went at night. But those two seem to be the ones that would make the most sense, right? Yeah.

Amber Sampson 12:49

One of my things I've kind of curious about too was whether this is just a complete curiosity. This I don't have there's no scriptural basis for this whatsoever. But I've been kind of wondering if um Nicodemus came, like what are there other Pharisees who were intrigued by Jesus and thought maybe maybe he is the Messiah? I I don't again, there are no scriptural context for that. But just a curiosity I have, and and I think that's okay to be curious about the scripture. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

Daniel Moore 13:18

I think the thing to remember though too is I I think if you if you get around someone that truly sees a transformed person, we know from experience as Christians that that does intrigue people. After a while, when they see you walking a certain walk in your life, they see God move, they see miracles happen, they see things take place, sooner or later they're probably gonna come and ask you, what is so different about you? You know, what in the world do you have in your life that I realize I don't think I have? Right. And I think this is where Nicodemus was. And I think a lot of the Pharisees, well, the we know the Pharisees were after Jesus. They were mad at him for lots of different things. Oh, for sure. Because he was pretty much bucking their system and calling them out. Calling them out. Yeah. Yes. And so so Nicodemus, I think at this point, like you were mentioned, I think there probably was a lot of other Pharisees that were questioning a lot of things. But he was the first one that was brave enough to call for a meeting with Jesus. But you'll notice that when he did come, he didn't call Jesus Messiah, he didn't call him Lord, he called him rabbi, teacher.

Kim McIntire 14:25

Right.

Daniel Moore 14:26

He still didn't want to acknowledge the fact that Jesus was the Messiah.

Kim McIntire 14:30

Right.

Daniel Moore 14:30

He still hadn't wrapped his mind around that and and had not been convinced yet. Um, he was still in that mode of thinking that Jesus is just a teacher, just like I am.

Kim McIntire 14:39

Yeah.

Daniel Moore 14:40

And so the fact that he did do that at night, and that was a very dangerous thing that he did, uh, because there was a lot of uh a lot of things that could happen to him for doing that. But we do know too later on in John, I think it's John 7 and John 9,

Born Again Not Works Or Status

Daniel Moore 14:58

uh Nicodemus does start moving forward to accepting Jesus because he actually I think in John 7 he actually took up for Jesus. And said, you know, he needs a fair case.

Kim McIntire 15:10

Isn't that our law?

Daniel Moore 15:12

Exactly. And so he stood up for him. And then later on, he actually brought tons of the perfumes and all that kind of thing when they uh done the burial.

Kim McIntire 15:19

He was a fairly I actually researched that today, and that the value of that would be in modern currency $150,000 to $200,000 worth of spices, which would be the equivalent of how you would bury a king. Wow. Like a royal, like the a line of royalty. That kind of extravagance would be done for that very well.

Amber Sampson 15:44

So that shows that Nicodemus. There was he acknowledged him as king. Oh, for sure. I I I think that maybe I think I don't know. I well, we don't know his heart and his motives, intentions, but I think that I think he's investigating. I think he wants to I think he wants to know, like, you know, who who are you?

Kim McIntire 16:02

Back to Yeah, I agree. And and back to what you said, Daniel, with with you know how Jesus responded to him in verse three. I think basically Jesus is saying your credentials don't mean anything.

Daniel Moore 16:15

Right.

Kim McIntire 16:15

For sure. I think that's one way you can take what Jesus said, like, I know your title, I know your position, and guess what? You need to be born again. Yeah. Which is the same message for us today. Exactly. Yeah. Our status, our whatever it is, financial, social.

Amber Sampson 16:34

What we what we know, you know, it our knowledge. Yeah, what we're doing, the works we're doing. It doesn't matter how good of a person you are, you still have to be born again. Exactly.

Daniel Moore 16:45

Yeah, and something else that I thought was interesting as as I looked into this is that portion there in verse 5 where it talks about being born of water and of the spirit. If you kind of research into that just a little bit, that actually throws back to Ezekiel 36. Um at verses 25 to 27. That's where God promised to cleanse his people and give them a new heart and a new spirit. So, in other words, when Jesus was declaring, he was actually declaring an old testament principle truth in this in this moment. Yes. And he was basically trying to get Nicodemus to see that this new way of being saved and redeemed that was going to happen with Jesus going to the cross was in essence uh going to be fulfilled through him.

Kim McIntire 17:28

That's right.

Daniel Moore 17:29

Um that he was the one that was going to make that big, huge change for all humanity. And so that all of this stuff that Nicodemus was doing is it was rituals. You know, they're the way that they uh looked at themselves as teachers and the way that they taught in the synagogues and everything, a lot of that was ritual to them. There's a lot of things they did the same way constantly, but that's not what it was all about. It was actually about a inward transformation, an inner renewal within side of us. Amen. And so, you know, some of the thoughts that I got out of this was, you know, are we trusting in religion or are we trusting in regeneration? Um, you know, and we look at that in our own lives, you know, a lot of us like, well, we attend church, I read the Bible, I pray, you know, I try to be a good person, all this kind of thing, you know. Uh that's religion. You know, that's just that's the superficial part of the Christianity that we claim that we walk. Right. But until we get to the point where we want to be regenerated, renewed inside, a new heart, new spirit, a new life, that that new spiritual walk that we have in Christ, uh, where are we stuck at? True. And I think that's what you know Jesus was trying to get across to Nicodemus here in in this these verses when he, you know, he was speaking to him, is it's like, you know, Christianity is not a self-improvement project. It's actually a true thing that that changes you from the inside out, which then you inherit the kingdom of God through all of that. And it's a it's a spiritual resurrection in our lives.

Kim McIntire 19:00

And the truth is full transparency. I've been a Pharisee. Oh, not by Jewish law, not by Jewish status, but I've been a Pharisee by means of the attitude of my heart, by means of legalism, by means of works, by means of pride, by means of, you know, thinking that somehow I'm good enough without Jesus and the Holy Spirit and his grace. Yeah. I mean, I've done, I will just openly confess that. Praise God, that's not the vein I'm in now. But you know, I read a book called once called How to Be a Pharisee. And the the goal of that book was or the purpose of that book was for self-examination. And it was breaking down like these are the attitude, these were the attitudes of the Pharisees. Do you see yourself? And I I mean it convicted me so deeply. Oh yeah. But you're right. It's it's it's about the inward work of the spirit through being born again. And so I actually feel like I really need to share this. Um this is regarding spiritual birth, and there are all of these scriptures that confirm this. But this spiritual birth that Jesus is talking about brings about so many changes in us. Number one, spiritual cleansing. This is Titus 3.5 and many other scriptures. Number two, the indwelling of God's Holy Spirit, Romans 8.9. Three, transformation into a new creation in Christ. 2 Corinthians 5.17. By the way, take time to look up these verses because they're powerful. Four, adoption as God's child, Romans 8.16. 5. The Holy Spirit's guidance and understanding of spiritual things, 1 Corinthians 2, 9 through 16. 6. The ability by the Spirit to live correctly, by God's standards, developing his character, Galatians 5, 16 through 23. And the last two are victory over sin, praise God, 1 John 3, 9, and an eternal inheritance with Christ, 1 Peter 1, 3 and 4. So basically, I mean, these are these are just a few of things that that God's like spiritual gift to us of being born again, because it's of the spirit, it's not of the flesh, it's not of human works. These are the things that the Lord does in us and through us and for us because we're born again.

Amber Sampson 21:32

Right. Yeah. Well, verse six humans can produce, reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. So you just kind of dissected what the Holy Spirit gives birth to in the spiritual life. That's exactly right. Yeah. It's so good.

Kim McIntire 21:47

And what a gift. And it's a free gift.

Daniel Moore 21:49

Right. It is.

Kim McIntire 21:50

It's amazing.

Daniel Moore 21:51

Yeah, a lot of people look at Christianity as a behavior modification, but it's not that. Um it's something that's going to make us actually alive inside. It's a It's a spiritual renovation of who we are. And I love all them points that that you bring out there because, you know, a lot of us we talk about salvation all the time and we talk about Christ living inside of us, I think, so often that it becomes one of those things where we don't really, I think, dig into what that truly means and dissect that out and understand exactly every point of our life that that actually transforms and changes. Yeah. That's a huge thing that takes place when that salvation, when we accept that into our heart and our life and we start walking that path and pursue it. And pursue it. It's easy to take that kind of with a grain of salt sometimes and just, you know, live superficially. And that's kind of what the Pharisees were doing. You know? That's true. They were taking this powerful thing that was going to save them for eternity. And they were in essence making a joke out of it. Although they thought they were right and they thought they were serious about it or whatever. Um, but you know, we have to make sure that we don't live that way because that's not what this is all about. And, you know, the scripture that you just mentioned, uh, I like how, you know, the scripture and I know in the ESV it says born flesh is flesh, and what is born spirit is spirit. And I like, you know, when Jesus brought that up to Nicodemus, um, he was trying to to to inform Nicodemus that there's a sharp distinction between human nature and spiritual nature. They're not the same thing. There's a huge difference. Flesh can only reproduce flesh, human effort, intelligence, tradition, morality, and that kind of thing. Only the Holy Spirit, though, can awaken a dead heart. That's true. And bring genuine transformation in our lives. That's true. There's a huge difference between the two. And, you know, Jesus brought that up to him, I think, trying to better explain it a little bit more to maybe where he can understand it a little bit better that there is a difference between the two, and it is it is an effort that you have to make to move into that next realm.

Kim McIntire 23:59

And it's so good of the Lord to, in verse 8, use an example like the wind. You can hear its sound, but you can't tell where it comes from or where it's going. So it is with everyone born of the spirit. The wind is known to us by its activity and sound. We know what it sounds like, we see what it does. In the same way, the Holy Spirit is observed by, we can see the activity of the Holy Spirit, and we can see the effect that it has on the people around us and within ourselves. And so I just love that too, that Jesus could just take such complex, deep issues and simplify them by saying, look at the wind.

How To Grow In The Spirit

Amber Sampson 24:41

So what would you say to listeners who think that they have the Holy Spirit, but they don't they're not seeing those things in their lives? They're not seeing a spiritual birth and or they want that.

Kim McIntire 24:53

What would I say? I would ask questions. Are you spending time in prayer? Are you opening God's word?

Daniel Moore 25:01

Yeah.

Kim McIntire 25:01

Are you spending time worshiping the Lord? And are you in fellowship with other people pursuing, not just Christians, but Christians that are pursuing the Lord, like chasing hard after God. Because I feel like there's so much to growing in the spirit and being filled and filled again. And part of those things come through prayer and all the other things I said. So that would be my if you feel like you're not growing and you don't have a relationship with the Holy Spirit, it could be that some of those things that you're not practicing are, I hate to say it's up to us, but in part it is up to us. We it's a relationship. So if if I'm gonna be friends with Amber, we're going to talk and we're gonna spend some time together.

Amber Sampson 25:45

Well, the word says draw near to me, I'll draw near to you. And it says like you draw near to me, so I gotta take the first step. Because he's already done the first step. We're gonna get into verse 16 where he gave his only son. So he's he's taking the biggest. Yeah. But we gotta take the step. And so and I want to say too, that's why we're doing this series on John, is to um, for one, dig into the word together, but I think it's also a demonstration of how easy it is to sit and talk about the scriptures. And you don't have to be a Bible scholar. I'm certainly not. I'm not. I kind of come into these always like, oh my word, I'm the least intelligent out of everybody.

Kim McIntire 26:22

I think the guests were asking maybe more Bible scholarly than we are, but that's okay. Yeah.

Amber Sampson 26:27

But I think but I w I would say like it's that simple. Open your Bible with a friend and start reading and just say, Well, what about this? What about that? Oh, I I think this, I think that.

Kim McIntire 26:37

Because the Holy Spirit is the teacher. Exactly. And and so before we start, we're like, Holy Spirit, teach us and lead us. And I want to say, Amber, Daniel, and I didn't get together beforehand and share notes and say, This is what we're gonna say when we brought our Bibles and our notes and we're sitting here and we're letting a conversation unfold. And this is a great way to build Christian community. Yeah. Put God's word at the center, put prayer at the center. Yeah. Have fun too. I mean, eat eat go out to eat and have fun, but like it can be fun to read God's word and grow. Yeah. Absolutely.

Daniel Moore 27:11

Well, I know for you know, for me, when somebody comes up and they are really struggling with where they are really are in their walk with God, the valid point there is the very first thing you got to go to is the basics. Yeah. Do you read your Bible? How often do you read your Bible? Do you pray? How often do you think do you pray? You know, that's that's two of the biggest things that any, you know, you're gonna all over the world you're gonna talk to people and everybody's a Christian. You know, you're gonna ask them, are you a Chr, oh yeah, I'm a Christian, you know, and uh it's a title, you know, pretty much. You start digging into things and okay, how much Bible reading do you? How much prayer do you do? Do you go to church on a regular basis? Do you serve? You know, do you get in your prayer closet and you know persevere and heavy prayers to move mountains? And you know, it's it's not just a slip into the mode and all of a sudden you get everything situation, it's work.

Kim McIntire 28:03

And it's a work and it grows.

Daniel Moore 28:05

It's a constant movement.

Kim McIntire 28:06

Like I mean, when I used to pray, I would pray maybe two or three minutes when I first began praying. And that's now I don't have enough time to pray. I mean, but it's been a two decades growth timeline.

Amber Sampson 28:17

And it's not a checklist, it's not uh by any means we don't want to be pharisiac on that, but if you're wanting to go deeper, these are the practical things to do. This is how, you know, just like you were saying, if um if you and I are gonna be friends, we're gonna go have dinner or lunch together, we're gonna have coffee. We're gonna talk. We're gonna swim in your pool. Can't wait for that. I think when this comes out, we'll be in the middle of summer, so we'll have gotten some of that in. But alone in the pool. But yeah, those are how you go deeper. That's how you um like I have it highly marked in my Bible how the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life. I mean, he's he does that through his word, through prayer, all those things that have been mentioned. So good.

Kim McIntire 28:56

Are there other thoughts?

Daniel Moore 28:57

You know, it's basically it's a lifestyle. Um because when you get it ingrained inside of you, it becomes second nature to you. And so you don't have to everybody thinks it's a lot of work being a Christian. At first it might be, it's new. It's something that you have to, it's like a habit. You know, if you're gonna form a habit, it takes time for that habit to form. And we know we want it to make good habits, we don't want bad habits. Right. Uh, but being a Christian is the same way. You have to nurture that. And just like you were talking, you started out with with short prayers. Sure. It it's all baby steps. All of it. There is a term called baby Christians, and it's that's a term for a reason. Yeah. And so when we start this out, you know, it is something small, and there's no reason to be, you know, concerned about that or upset. That's right. As you'll find out that the more you read, the more you pray, it it is, it just starts growing inside of you, and it becomes second nature to you eventually. And if we move on here to verses nine and ten real quick, before we move on in our our text, uh Nicodemus asked, How can these things be? And I really it it intrigues me how Jesus answered this because Jesus almost is surprised in his answer when he when he talks to Nicodemus. He's like, Are you the teacher of Israel? And yet you do not understand these things? I mean, it's just like that here, you know, the Pharisees, they're these know-it-alls, the teachers, the scholars, they're leading everyone. They're all of this stuff.

Kim McIntire 30:20

All the people are looking to them.

Daniel Moore 30:21

So so here there was a point behind that, though. Jesus was trying to expose a major issue that the that those Pharisees had.

Kim McIntire 30:28

Yeah.

Daniel Moore 30:29

And Nicodemus had information without revelation, is what it came down to. That's true. And, you know, Nicodemus, all these Pharisees, they knew the scriptures, but they failed to grasp the central, the central message about spiritual renewal. They didn't grasp that part of it. True. And and so, you know, later on, as we move on down there, you know, the problem was not the lack of information because they had plenty of that. They had all the the Old Testament scriptures, the prophets, all this stuff that they were teaching. They had all of that. It was just a spiritual blindness. And, you know, there's a something that can come out of that that we can apply to ourselves, you know, is just because we have the head knowledge and we under we we can memorize scripture all day long and know the Bible, you know, front to back, but that doesn't mean that our hearts are going to change. It's true. Just because we have that head knowledge there, we have to humble ourselves. We've got to have some humility in our lives and understand that we are a wrecked, messed up person. We need Christ dwelling inside of us, transforming us from the inside out, getting rid of that old nature that Satan wants us to hang on to. Um, and that's the whole point behind, you know, all of the whole Christian walk is that new heart that we're going to get. And so I thought that kind of went with what we were just talking about. Sure. You know, with the people that might be struggling, uh, because maybe you do read a lot and you're still not feeling it. You know, maybe you feel like you do pray a lot and you're not feeling it. Well, need to dig a little deeper. There's there's something there that's holding you back. There is some wall, there's some boundary. It could be something like you've unforgiveness. Maybe you haven't forgiven somebody for something. I mean, dig back into your history and figure out where are some things in my life that's happened behind me that maybe I've never reconciled with or taken care of. Maybe they've hold me back.

Kim McIntire 32:20

I would say unforgiveness and unconfessed sin would be at the top of the list of things that build walls to keep us from feeling like we're growing or we're fellowshipping with the Lord. That's been true in my life.

Daniel Moore 32:32

I've seen it happen many times.

Kim McIntire 32:33

When I have any kind of I mean, I've even struggled, you know, just in the past year with the situation and trying to lay down, you know, frustration, disappointment. If if the enemy can hold, you know, really attach those to your heart, that can become a wall brick by brick. It can and create distance in your fellowship with Jesus. It doesn't change my salvation, right? But it can change the closeness that I feel to the Lord. And so my I would agree with you, Daniel, like settle things. If there's unsettled things, settle them. And sometimes you have to do it again and again. I've had many seasons where every single day I'm like, Lord, help me put this away. Lord, create in me a clean heart. Lord, break down my pride. Lord, forgive me, and I'm here again. Asking the same thing. But guess what? He'll honor it. He'll honor it. Because it's that acknowledgement that I'm weak, but you're strong. And I can't do this without you.

Amber Sampson 33:31

I think so I think it too is that sometimes it's as simple as just inviting the Holy Spirit, you know. Yes. I've I've learned that from you, Kim, of like when you read the scripture, invite the Holy Spirit to reveal to you. And to um and so all those things are true, what you said too, but I also think there's an element of just like, Holy Spirit, I want to spend time with you today. That's right. And so would you talk to me as I read your word today? Yes. And and then you gotta listen.

Kim McIntire 34:00

Because then it's an invitation.

Amber Sampson 34:02

Yeah. And he comes where he's wanted. And so, yeah, it's all sorts of good thing ways to get closer to him.

Daniel Moore 34:09

And he will reveal things. Yes, he will. He will.

John 3:16-21 Love And Belief

Kim McIntire 34:13

Yeah. Well, let's go to um verse 16 through 21. Daniel, do you want to lead out with that? Sure.

Daniel Moore 34:19

And I'm reading from the ESV. It says, For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he is not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment. The light has come into the world, and people love the darkness rather than the light, because their works were evil. For every one who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.

Kim McIntire 35:04

Amen. I would say that is probably that section is probably one of the most known, if not the most known, of the entire book of the Bible. John 3, 16 and 17.

Daniel Moore 35:17

It is one of the most quoted. Uh there I do feel that sometimes there's a little bit of depth in that scripture that's not realized by people sometimes. And one part of that is where it says, For God so loved the world, uh, the context of that is is world here refers to fallen rebellious humanity. God's love was not directed toward deserving people, but towards sinners who rebelled against him. The word gave is also important because it says God's love is demonstrated through sacrifice. Love is not merely emotion or sentiment. Biblical love gives, sacrifices, pursues redemption. Jesus was not sent merely to inspire humanity, he was sent to die for humanity. And I I I like how, you know, we mention a lot as Christians that we're to come out of the world. We're not to live in the world. We don't want to be like the world. You know, that's a very common term. And in essence, that's what's being used here in the scripture. And so when you look at it the scope of that, the world is a very evil place. There's a lot of bad things that happen every day out in the world where Satan has dominion. Yes. A lot of really bad things happen. And the fact that Jesus would come and God would have so much love for all of that evil, the people that do that evil, not the evil. He would have love for the people that do the evil. Um, he looks at them as his masterpiece. They were essentially they were created in his image. The Bible tells us that.

Kim McIntire 36:51

Yes.

Daniel Moore 36:51

But yet they chose that path to go down that evil path that they've gone down, and that that disturbed God so much that he sent Jesus to die for that person, to die for us, because we were out there at one point in time. And he didn't have to, he did not have to.

Kim McIntire 37:09

That was He was the initiator.

Daniel Moore 37:11

Yes. And that's another point in that scripture, too, is the fact that I I really feel like when Jesus went to the cross, I think I think the Roman Empire, they were all just all giddy and excited. We beat the quote unquote Messiah. We took him out, right? You know, um, we shut him down.

Kim McIntire 37:30

Right.

Daniel Moore 37:31

When in all reality, that's not what happened. God allowed it to happen. It was always in his plan. Yes. God could have stopped it.

Kim McIntire 37:38

Yes.

Daniel Moore 37:39

But in the big scope of the whole picture, Jesus came and willingly gave his life so that all of us could have salvation and have that eternal life. Had nothing to do with the fact that he was whipped.

Kim McIntire 37:50

That's true.

Daniel Moore 37:50

Had nothing to do with the fact that he was defeated, because three days later we know what happened.

Kim McIntire 37:56

Amen.

Daniel Moore 37:56

Death was defeated, Satan was defeated. Jesus resurrected, and that was that started that whole that whole new generation uh that has moved up into where we are at today. And I I think that's a lot of people's favorite scripture for a reason.

Kim McIntire 38:14

Something that I wanted to to reference was this belief, this word belief. And it is um true belief in Christ is not just a mental exercise, but it is an active, active, living, growing trust, which leads us to surrender the leadership of our life to Jesus, making him Lord over our lives. So to me, belief can be well, yes, I believe in Jesus. Of course I'm a Christian, I'm going to heaven. But belief is active and it submits to his lordship. And so, you know, for people who aren't sure, am I saved? Am I not saved? It's by the blood of Jesus alone. We cannot be saved any other way, for it is by grace you have been saved through faith, not of works, lest any man should boast through the blood of Jesus alone. However, belief is active. It's not a one-time, it's an ongoing faith that entrusts itself to God's will is better than mine. God's ways are better than mine. His plan is better than mine. So it gets us off the throne of our life and it puts Jesus Christ at the throne of our life, and we have to submit to his lordship. So I don't know. I feel like that in our culture today, especially Western culture, I feel like that really needs to be explained. Yeah. As often as it can be. Yeah.

Daniel Moore 39:46

Yeah.

Kim McIntire 39:46

Yeah.

Daniel Moore 39:46

And as you move on to the next verse there, uh, in verse 18, where it says whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already. You know, the world likes to come at it that um Jesus that God's a hateful person because he always puts condemnation and judgment on people, you know. And the world wants to make it look like it's a really bad thing. But uh what they forget is the world's condemned already.

Kim McIntire 40:11

Right.

Daniel Moore 40:11

Before any of this even happened, right, sin had already been introduced into the world with Adam and Eve at the very beginning of time. And that started the the ball rolling all through the to where we're at today. Sin has been here ever since. And we know what happens if we don't take care of that sin in our life. We are condemned to eternity in hell. That's that's the extent of it. And so it's not that God's you know always wanting to throw judgment on people and and condemnation on people. Jesus came to get us out of that. That's right. He's the answer for that condemnation that we are in, unfortunately, as sinners.

Kim McIntire 40:48

That's true.

Daniel Moore 40:49

And you know, I I really like how that those verses flow together with, you know, Jesus coming and uh to take our sins away. And then it gets into the condemnation part of that. I thought that was very needed to put all of those together because they tie together so well with why Jesus came and how we were already in this condition before. So we should be thankful he came and did that because now we have the opportunity of eternity with him.

Kim McIntire 41:13

That's so true.

John The Baptist Chooses Humility

Kim McIntire 41:14

So okay, let's go ahead and go to verse 22. Do you want to lead out to finish out the chapter?

Amber Sampson 41:21

Yeah. Um I'm reading from the NLT version. Um Then Jesus and his disciples left Jerusalem and went into the Judean countryside. Jesus spent some time with them there baptizing people. At this time, John the Baptist was baptizing at Enon. I don't know if I'm saying that right. Near Salem, because there was plenty of water there and people kept coming to him for baptism. This was before John was thrown into prison. A debate broke out between John's disciples and a certain Jew over ceremonial cleansing. So John's disciples came to him and said, Rabbi, the man you met on the other side of the Jordan River, the one you identified as the Messiah, is also baptizing people, and everyone's going to him instead of coming to us. John replied, No one can receive anything unless God gives it to or unless God gives it from heaven. You yourselves know how plainly I told you, I am not the Messiah. I am only here to prepare the way for him. It is the bridegroom who marries the bride, and the best man is simply glad to stand with him and hear his vows. Therefore, I am filled with joy at his success. He must become greater and greater, and I must become less and less. He has come from above and is greater than anyone else. We are of the earth and we speak of earthly things, but he has come from heaven and is greater than anyone else. He testifies about what he has seen and heard, but how few believe what he tells them. Anyone who accepts his testimony can affirm that God is true, for he is sent by God, he speaks God's words, for God gives him the Spirit without limit. The Father loves his son and has put everything into his hands, and anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't obey the Son will never experience eternal life, but remains under God's angry judgment. I'm telling you, a lot is packed into this.

Kim McIntire 43:18

I know we're running out of time, but there's a lot in there. I just have to say one thing. Because I could say a million on this part, but verse through thirty in my translation, it says, He must increase, but I must decrease. Amber said, He must become greater and greater. I must become less and less. What if that was truly the heart cry of every true follower of Jesus Christ?

Daniel Moore 43:44

Yeah.

Kim McIntire 43:45

Yeah. And maybe that's a marker. But I'm I'm literally, as I was reading this to prepare for tonight, I'm just like, Lord, let that be my heart posture that you increase in my life and I. Kim decrease. Only good can come from that.

Amber Sampson 44:05

I think I I don't know. I just think too that m you know, John the Baptist had quite the ministry, but obviously Jesus' ministry is growing, John the Baptist, his ministry's shrinking. And John's like, hey, it has to. He has to become greater. I have to become less. We kind of talked about that in John 1, of just like John the Baptist, he knew his mission, he knew his role, and he was and I just love how he I mean, we don't know all the things that, you know, we just know what scripture says, but it it never comes across that um like John, he never elevates himself. He's always so hungry. He seems jealous. Yeah, jealous. Yeah. He's never, yeah, he never feels that way. And it and I just I I I just I love that about who he is. But he had an amazing ministry, but as Jesus' ministry is taking off, he's like, hey, that's great. That's what needs to happen. And he like he recognizes that, that that needed to happen. And I and I'm kind of curious too of like, where did he get all this knowledge at? Like I what what was happening in his spiritual life that he had these revelations, you know? I I'm curious, I I just I ponder that sometimes.

Kim McIntire 45:12

And whatever your ministry platform looks like, whether it's public or private, because we all have ministries, yeah. But let it be that when we see other people's ministries thriving, we cheer. We applaud. Yeah. We say, way to go, Daniel, your podcast is exploding. Your numbers are through the roof. I'm so happy for you. God's really using you. I mean, shouldn't that be our attitude toward fellow leaders in the kingdom? And John, I mean, John and obviously John and Jesus are in a whole different realm leaders in the kingdom, but but still, it's a principle. Right. Yes, yes.

Daniel Moore 45:50

Yeah, the the jealousy came from John's disciples.

Kim McIntire 45:53

Yeah, right. That's where the name from there you go. Yeah.

Daniel Moore 45:56

And but John knew he was the messenger, Jesus was the Messiah. That's right. That was the difference. And so he knew that his time was limited, he knew his days were numbered, he knew Jesus was coming to take over. He was just the precursor of Jesus coming. And there were some things that John the Baptist, when he baptized Jesus and the Holy Spirit came down, there were some things that John the Baptist had to take care of. It's true. And the whole sequence of things, you know, the way that God laid that plan out. But John knew that it wasn't all about John the Baptist, you know. Humility.

Kim McIntire 46:31

Such humility.

Daniel Moore 46:33

And I like how they, you know, the the illustration there of the bridegroom, that would have really resonated with them back then because in Jewish culture, the the friend of the bride bridegroom had an important role in helping prepare the wedding, but the wedding was never about him. His joy came from seeing the bridegroom honored and the marriage fulfilled. And that's why in the scripture, um, John referenced to himself as the friend of the bridegroom. Right. So John had a full understanding of who Jesus was. So true. And I'm like you, Amber, you know, it's when you really think about how how all of this had to play out back then, because the Messiah, you know, they'd been waiting for the Messiah for a long time. And they were always having false alarms. You know, it's like and it was getting to the point where, well, it came to the point where when Jesus did show up, so many people didn't believe him. Right. You know, it's like crawling crying woof or whatever. And it it really took actual people with true discernment, with the Holy Spirit guidance inside of them to have an understanding of exactly who Jesus was. And I think God revealed that to the people that it needed to be revealed to. And I think that that's that's the only answer I can come up with. Sure. You know, because they had the Old Testament and but a lot of that was prophetic. I mean, they knew Jesus was coming because of the Old Testament. You know, it's Isaiah, Ezekiel, a whole bunch of them uh prophesied that there was going to be a child who was going to be born. Yeah. And he was going to carry the weight of the world on his shoulders, he's going to be the Messiah. You know, they had known this for years. And but when he actually shows up, that's just like us. Are we in a place that we can recognize him when he shows up? Yeah. You know, uh, as Christians, today we have it kind of easy because we have the Bible here where Jesus already came. He died for us, he rose from the dead, he gave us this opportunity for salvation. So we have this whole plan laid out right in front of us or that we can read any day of the week we want to. It's just up to us at this point if we're gonna believe it and actually walk that out in our hearts. Um but back then they really didn't they had the scripture, but he hadn't been here yet. So it it does, it kind of blows my mind sometimes when I think about that. Because I'm like, how did how did these guys really know? You know, the ones that actually truly uh followed him and and understood who he truly was, you know, it's just amazing how all of that worked. But uh, you know, when it comes down to it, I think the only answer to that is discernment and the revelation.

Kim McIntire 49:04

The revelation, yeah.

Daniel Moore 49:06

I think God allowed the people that needed to know that helped push the agenda of Jesus and where he was supposed to be headed. And I think God put all that into plan. So true. I truly do. Um, but yeah, it's I think the part that stood out to me the most in that whole last section there was definitely the humility of John the Baptist. Me too.

Amber Sampson 49:30

Yeah.

Daniel Moore 49:31

How many times, even us as Christians today, it's real easy to get jealous. I mean, we try to not to do that because we know it's not right. But we're still human. And you know, sometimes we see things happen and uh it might something you know they might be performing a little bit better than we are, or getting a little bit more alkalades, or you know, some people feel like they got to be called out when they do stuff. You know, it's like, yeah, it's nice to get a pat on the back every once in a while, but that's not what it's all about. No, you know, Jesus came to be a servant, he's gave us uh that model. That's what we're supposed to be is a servant, and how our servants, they're usually in the background just getting things done. You know, they're not going around looking for high fives and all this other stuff. They're back there doing a job, they're doing a purpose, and that's what we are called to do. And I think John the Baptist done such a perfect job of uh revealing what that meant to be a true servant and uh that humility. I'm sure his disciples learned a lot from him that day whenever he he spoke all that truth into them. But yeah, I I think John 3, it's it's very interesting. I I I think it's really neat, you know, with uh how everything laid out. It's it really makes you think about a lot of things in our own life. Would I have been brave enough to meet somebody at night that I'm not supposed to be meeting at the detriment of losing who I am and maybe getting thrown in the house? You know, there's a lot on the line for him. It's true. And you know, I just I would hope that within my own self that any time that I am put into that situation and that position that I would make the right call.

What Will You Do With Jesus

Kim McIntire 51:21

Yeah. Amen. Yeah, me too. Well, any closing thoughts before we sign off from this episode today?

Amber Sampson 51:30

Well, if we keep going, we're well, this could be it. This could be it, this could be ours. It's it's good. The scriptures it just goes to show the scripture's so rich. It's alive, yeah, it's active.

Daniel Moore 51:40

I think one question that I would just want to leave with everybody I think we all have to ultimately answer one question as we read this chapter, and that is what will you do with Jesus? Mm-hmm. Because according to verse 36 in this chapter, eternity hinges on that response.

Kim McIntire 51:58

That's right.

Daniel Moore 51:59

And so I think as we do our daily things, our work, family, everything that takes up all of our time, are you finding time to put Jesus somewhere in the middle of all of that?

Kim McIntire 52:14

Amen.

Daniel Moore 52:15

And nurture that relationship, that friendship that's above any other friendship that we could ever ask for. What are what are we doing to nurture that? And I think through this whole chapter, I think I just keep seeing that being blasted out there. You know, Jesus is here, he came for this reason. What are you going to do with him?

Kim McIntire 52:38

What are you going to do with him? You know, on a personal level. Without a miraculous move of God. And there's nothing harder than not knowing. And I'm so grateful that a relative who lives in that same area was able to go and sit by his bedside and really speak Jesus and settle things for eternity. Don't be the person who's at the end of the life on earth and your family doesn't know what did you do with Jesus. Because all of us really need to ask ourselves that question. And we want the people in our lives to know what we did with Jesus, and that is we accepted, believed, and submitted our lives to him, and that our sins are under the blood.

Daniel Moore 53:38

Yes.

Kim McIntire 53:38

So that the cell there can be a celebration.

Daniel Moore 53:41

Yes.

Kim McIntire 53:42

You know, on that final day when they get to graduate to heaven. So um right, well, we're going to close this episode in prayer.

Closing Prayer And Next Steps

Kim McIntire 53:52

Father, thank you again for your word. Thank you for every listener who is under the sound of our voice in this episode. Daniel Amber and I want to speak the name of Jesus over every heart. We speak the name of Jesus. Yes. We also plead the blood of Jesus over the listeners of this podcast. And Lord, we pray that if they do not know you as their savior and if they have not made you Lord of their life, Lord, today would be a day of salvation. Today would be a day of decision. Whether they hear this first thing in the morning or before they lay their head on their pillow tonight, I pray, God, and we agree, we three agree in Jesus' name that souls will come to salvation because they have heard your word spoken and we have prayed in agreement for salvation. And Lord, not just salvation, the surrender of their entire lives, that they would be, God, encountering you, that they would be filled with your Holy Spirit, that their lives would be transformed, God. We believe for this. And God, thank you that you allow us to speak through these airwaves, the truth of Jesus Christ. He is the way, the truth, and the life. And no one, your word says, comes to the Father except through Jesus. So thank you, Lord, for this promise of eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. We love you, Lord. We praise you, Lord, and we give you glory and thanks for all that you have done. You are worthy of our praise. In the holy name of Jesus, we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen.

Daniel Moore 55:45

Amen.

Kim McIntire 55:45

Thank you, Daniel. Thank you, Amber. What a great night in God's Word. And thank you, listeners, for taking your time to listen. Please share this series because we believe God's Word has the power to change lives. Also, don't forget to check out our website at it'stimetoriseup.org where you'll find our social media links. Also, we would love to hear from you. Leave us your feedback, rate us, or leave us a far five star review on Apple Podcasts. May God's grace and peace be with you all in Jesus' name.