Honesty in Marriage with Daniel and Michelle Moore - 18

What does it take to save a marriage on the brink of collapse? Daniel and Michelle Moore's raw, unfiltered story offers a roadmap for couples navigating the darkest valleys of broken trust.

After 23 years together, the Moores don't sugar-coat their journey. The first seven years were marked by devastating dishonesty – Daniel maintaining inappropriate friendships with ex-girlfriends and discussing marital problems with them behind Michelle's back, manipulating her into consenting to a vasectomy despite her desire for children. Michelle eventually responded with her own deception, developing a relationship that turned into an affair. Their marriage deteriorated to the point where Michelle had secured an apartment and was ready to leave.

Then something extraordinary happened. On the very night Michelle planned to move out, a shift occurred in her heart. Despite having viewed the apartment together, they made one final decision to try again – this time building on complete honesty and vulnerable communication. Two years later, they renewed their vows, marking not just a recommitment to each other, but to an entirely new way of being married with God at the center.

The transformation wasn't merely about better communication techniques. Both Daniel and Michelle describe how developing genuine, personal relationships with Jesus fundamentally changed how they approached their marriage. Daniel offers a profound perspective: "When we get married, we're practicing for the marriage of Christ... The big picture is we're working through this marriage so that someday when we get to heaven, we should have it perfected."

Today, the Moores lead multiple marriage ministries, including their podcast "Marriage, Life and More with Connecting the Gap Ministries" and serve as Marriage 911 coaches. Their story stands as living proof that even marriages that have endured affairs, dishonesty, and near-divorce can become beautiful testimonies of redemption and healing.

Want to strengthen your own marriage? Subscribe to the podcast, visit itstimetoriseup.org, and consider joining us at the Rise Up Conference 2025 (August 1-2 near Branson, Missouri) using promo code PODCAST15 for a special discount.

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Rise Up Podcast
• 1:35 Meeting Daniel and Michelle Moore
• 4:28 23 Years of Marriage Journey
• 9:41 Honesty Issues in Early Marriage
• 16:37 The Affair and Breaking Point
• 24:29 God's Redemption in Marriage
• 34:05 Biblical Truths for Struggling Couples
• 43:18 Closing Prayer for Marriages

Transcript

Kim McIntire: 0:08

Hey everyone, welcome to the it's Time to Rise Up podcast. I'm your host, Kim McIntire. We know there are so many things you can do with your time. Thank you for choosing to spend your time listening today. We pray you're encouraged by what is shared. If you're not familiar with our show, check out our website at itstimetoriseuporg where you'll find our social media links and for our podcast platforms. You'll find us on YouTube, apple Podcasts, spotify and anywhere else you find your podcast. We would humbly ask you to subscribe, leave a comment or give us a review on Apple Podcast. Thank you again for joining us today.

Kim McIntire: 0:50

Today I'm looking forward to a conversation with Daniel and Michelle Moore. They have both been guests before, when Michelle shared her testimony from last year's conference and Daniel shared his perspective on the conference as well, but today they are here to talk about marriage. This is the second interview of three from different couples that are willing to share the hard things God has brought them through. Testimony means do it again, so we pray what you hear will lead to a testimony of your own, especially if you're facing struggles in your own marriage or know someone who is. So let's jump in and find out a few things about you guys. Why don't you introduce you guys, daniel?

Daniel Moore: 1:35

Okay, well, I'm Daniel Daniel Moore.

Kim McIntire: 1:38

Hi Daniel, Welcome back.

Daniel Moore: 1:40

My beautiful wife Michelle's over here.

Michelle Moore: 1:42

Hey, Michelle.

Daniel Moore: 1:44

I'll kind of let her start off and give some facts and figures about us and our marriage.

Michelle Moore: 1:50

All right. So, as Kim said, we've been on here before, so some of you guys got to hear my testimony and how God changed my heart and being able to speak out on the podcast the marriage podcast that we've done yeah, able to speak out on the podcast the marriage podcast that we've done. Dan and I have been married for 23 years now and some of those roads were rocky but, bless the Lord, we're here and going strong and we're kind of thinking we think too much alike, a little A lot actually.

Michelle Moore: 2:19

We have three children, a blended family, and Jacob and Jeremiah are mine and Brooklyn is his, but we claim them as ours, that's right. And we have a son-in-law and then a daughter-in-law and three babies, grandbabies, all girls, and we have one getting ready to be born in August. Congratulations, so excited. Another girl.

Daniel Moore: 2:43

I'm outnumbered.

Kim McIntire: 2:44

You are. I've got to go put the quarter In the best kind of way though, right.

Daniel Moore: 2:48

I've got to find that quarter machine somewhere and make sure I get that quarter in that slot.

Kim McIntire: 2:52

Oh, my word.

Daniel Moore: 2:53

I need a boy.

Michelle Moore: 2:54

That's so funny. Actually, I would like a boy too, so I grew up with three brothers.

Kim McIntire: 2:59

And he grew up with brothers hey, maybe someday, maybe someday, guys, we're holding out. Don't give up hope.

Michelle Moore: 3:04

But Dan and I have been through a lot, as we have said, and we are so thankful that God has been a big part of our restoring our marriage, the restoration part of it and we've grown a lot together, and doing the podcast has a different level of growing together.

Kim McIntire: 3:27

Yeah, for sure, daniel, talk about that a little bit.

Daniel Moore: 3:30

Yeah. So for about almost going into five years now going into my fifth year I've been doing a podcast and originally it was Connecting the Gap and it was basically Bible study type stuff and interviews and that kind of thing study type stuff and interviews and that kind of thing. Well, here this last fall I finally talked my wife into joining me after I tried a few times and she kept telling me no, and she finally decided to do that. She felt like God gave her a piece in her heart to go ahead and do that. So I've been wanting to do a marriage series with her and so that came to pass and it was about four months, I think that that series lasted. In the process of that God redirected it all and basically we've kind of flipped it to a marriage platform now. So now it's called Marriage, life and More.

Kim McIntire: 4:17

I love that With.

Daniel Moore: 4:18

Connecting the Gap Ministries, because I still do Bible study stuff and that kind of thing as well. I just kind of mix that all in there with it.

Kim McIntire: 4:25

Yeah.

Daniel Moore: 4:26

So we're taking off on that journey now. Then, of course, here recently, her and I have gotten certified with Simba's assessment to be able to do premarital counseling.

Kim McIntire: 4:37

now Wonderful and even post-marriage stuff. Yeah.

Daniel Moore: 4:42

So we work with the Marriage 911 program at church. Awesome, Her and I are the coaches over that. So it's just crazy all the doors that since we've just since this podcast has flipped.

Kim McIntire: 4:56

I mean this is what happens when you say yes to God.

Daniel Moore: 4:58

It's crazy.

Michelle Moore: 4:59

All kinds of doors open.

Kim McIntire: 5:00

Oh yeah.

Michelle Moore: 5:01

It has truly been that.

Kim McIntire: 5:02

It has.

Michelle Moore: 5:03

Since you rise up and ever since God healed my heart and moved into that door. I mean we kind of laugh about it, but it's really not a laughing thing. I mean God has truly just been in front of us and he was just waiting for me to get out of the way.

Kim McIntire: 5:18

Yeah, Look what the Lord has done.

Daniel Moore: 5:20

That's right and I think you know there was a portion of time there that there was growth in me as well.

Michelle Moore: 5:25

Sure.

Daniel Moore: 5:26

So I think you know God has his timing for everything and even though I wanted it a year or two ago, that wasn't in the plan at that time. Obviously, with God's plans, and I'm thankful too that it didn't happen that soon, because I've had a lot of all those years I had a chance to get the growth part in and get I've had a lot of all those years I had a chance to get the growth part in and get you know all the process figured out and all that kind of thing before we decided to go together.

Michelle Moore: 5:52

So yes, oh, absolutely.

Daniel Moore: 5:54

That is for sure. Yes, I mean In many ways.

Kim McIntire: 5:56

In many ways that's so good. So 23 years of marriage and when you look over that span of time would you say most of those years have been successful years of marriage no. See, we value honesty at Rise Up, we value honesty.

Daniel Moore: 6:20

I guess it depends on how you define most.

Kim McIntire: 6:22

Yeah, yeah, I guess it depends on how you define most.

Daniel Moore: 6:25

Yeah, we did have a I would. I think we probably had more years at this point that were probably successful.

Michelle Moore: 6:32

Oh yeah, I think so now.

Daniel Moore: 6:34

Because we're in, you know, 23 years. We're into the ways now. So I think we're beyond that 50-50 point, I would say the last 15 years have been the successful part for us.

Michelle Moore: 6:46

Yeah, and definitely we've learned a lot, especially putting God at the center. Yeah, I mean.

Daniel Moore: 6:52

About the first six to seven years was our rough period.

Michelle Moore: 6:55

It was very rough.

Daniel Moore: 6:56

And so once we got past that point, it started going the opposite direction, and then it's just gradually gotten better as times went along. So we've definitely, definitely walked our walk, no doubt about it.

Kim McIntire: 7:07

Well, one thing that I pick up on when I'm listening to your podcast because I'm a fan and I've shared many episodes but the theme that has run through so many of those episodes has been honesty and communication and the importance of that, and one of the questions I was going to ask you guys was how would you define a successful marriage? But would you guys agree, honesty and communication are key. Oh, absolutely.

Michelle Moore: 7:34

I mean, I think, if you don't have it and you know, honesty is being open. Like you're vulnerable, you're talking, you're being yourself. Open like you're vulnerable, you're talking, you're being yourself. There's no hey, daniel, I'm going to do this, or, you know, because he's actually wanting to do something. I'm going to do it because he wants to do it or I'm kind of going with him.

Michelle Moore: 7:56

I'm not being what's on the inside. I really don't want to do that, and let's talk about it. Can we meet in the middle, honestly? There were so many things, though, too, that we held back from each other, and so, I think, being a lot of walls, yes, and just being able to communicate that it goes hand in hand, yeah.

Daniel Moore: 8:14

I'll tell you what's interesting about this question, just to kind of give you an idea how her and I are on the same thought plane. It's really scary. She did her notes for this and I did mine separately. We did not converse on these notes at all that we both made, and the one thing that both of us came up with on this question was put God in the center.

Kim McIntire: 8:37

When I looked. She sent me her notes today and I looked at that and I'm like she's reading my mail again.

Daniel Moore: 8:43

Yeah, you know. And when?

Kim McIntire: 8:45

people say, put God in the center. I think some people understand what that means. But for someone who's listening, who actually doesn't know, like okay, what would that actually look like? Or how do you actually make God the center? What would you guys speak into that?

Daniel Moore: 9:06

Really there's a little short line that just kind of encompasses all of it. You make God the foundation of your marriage and everything that you do. If you do that, then everything else is going to fall into place, because anytime that we leave ourselves in the equation and we value our thought process, our ideas and our decisions over what God's decisions and His thought process is, nine times out of ten you're going to end up going down a wrong fork in the road. It's just not going to work out, and so, in order to put God at the center of all of that, we have to take ourselves out of it. You know we can't be in front of Him if he's going to be the actual center of that, and so I think once people can understand how to seek God's guidance and His wisdom, his grace, invite Him into the marriage to be that third will. If you want to say let Him lead and guide you in everything about your relationship, then you can't go wrong, because he is the ultimate wisdom.

Kim McIntire: 10:08

Right.

Daniel Moore: 10:09

And he created marriage and I think a lot of people forget that. You know, we all get married and we think, okay, well, we got to get the license and get the pastor and get the church and the decorations. All of that is the worldly side of it, but in all reality, all of that comes together to create something that's very spiritual. Yeah, and a lot of people don't think of that part of it because they're so excited and giddy about getting their life started together and the honeymoon and the kids in the future and all that stuff, and that's understandable. You know that's part of the equation, but we can't forget that the actual foundation of everything that's taking place at that moment has to be God-oriented, and you know that's anything to add to that.

Michelle Moore: 10:51

No, and I would also say that you know your personal, intimate relationship needs to be strong, right, because if you don't have that, how can you put God in the center? You have to work on yourself, yeah, and then you know your husband, if you're married, then to work on himself, and then that's where you meet and you make sure that he's in the center over your marriage to make sure that he's guiding, directing and giving us the wisdom that we need every day over the marriage and the decisions that we make daily. Sure, absolutely.

Kim McIntire: 11:25

Well, I would just love to hear from you guys about your journey, wherever you want to start. You know you said the first six, seven years were pretty difficult. I don't know how much on that you want to talk about, but let's just open it up to that opportunity to share. Just remember, there is a time limit on this. That's true.

Michelle Moore: 11:46

How do we get six?

Daniel Moore: 11:47

years and 20 minutes.

Michelle Moore: 11:48

He'll go on. Short version Ward Short version. Okay.

Daniel Moore: 11:53

So we've actually narrowed this down because we've all agreed to talk about honesty in marriage. So that kind of narrows it down just a little bit to try to keep it, you know, within a good time frame. But honesty in marriage, you know, it plays a crucial role in any marriage because it forms that foundation of trust and that intimacy that you're going to have between both partners. And if you can't be honest with your partner, then obviously that trust is not going to be there, because something's going to happen that's going to damage that trust More often that that happens. Then things start to crumble, that foundation starts to fall apart, true? So then you start having all these issues and everything starts going backwards.

Daniel Moore: 12:38

So I probably was the one that really started with the dishonest part of our marriage, because whenever we got married, I had been single for about five years and during that time frame I had several different girls that I dated. They were very short-lived relationships but and several of them weren't, you know, when we broke up we were still friends. You know, it wasn't like it was a bad deal, and so some of them I had friendships with. When her and I got together and you know, one of the first things that I did. One of the first rules that I broke whenever we got married was I tried to hang on to some of those friendships and bring them into the marriage without telling her because I knew that if I told her that she would be upset about it.

Daniel Moore: 13:25

So there, my first balance was off. You know, instead of putting all of my focus where it should have been towards our marriage I focused where it should have been towards our marriage and you know, michelle is my new spouse. I was trying to balance the will there and I was letting the friends have the same or more of an effect in my life, or, you know, an influence, I guess you could say and I was willing to balance that and try to hide it. And especially with one particular person, that friendship continued on. I was talking to her behind Michelle's back and one day it was getting harder and harder to hide the conversations and nothing intimate had happened or any of that kind of thing. But I had broken the rules of discussing.

Daniel Moore: 14:16

We had started to have some issue with the blended situation. I had a daughter, she had two boys. We're trying to blend these kids together and personalities were clashing and we were having some issues. It was very frustrating to me and I was having difficulty trying to figure out how to handle that. There's no handbook for a blended marriage on what you do when you put your, you just think, oh we're going to get married and it's going to be fine.

Michelle Moore: 14:41

We never searched it.

Daniel Moore: 14:42

Yeah, we never found it.

Michelle Moore: 14:43

You were winging it, we were winging it.

Kim McIntire: 14:45

Definitely winging it.

Daniel Moore: 14:46

And it was failing super fast. We were crashing towards the end as winging.

Kim McIntire: 14:49

It often does fail fast A person who knows from experience. I say that.

Daniel Moore: 14:56

And so you know I was starting to talk to her about my marital problems and that's a no-no, that's a big no-no, especially the opposite sex. Absolutely that's something that should never happen, because the opposite sex, especially if it's the guy talking to the girl, they're very emotional and they get emotionally involved at that point and that relationship can start flipping and there can start being feelings there and they can, they can want to come in and try to, you know, soothe your pain and be that bestie right there that's going to help you through things and whatever and before you know it, bad things can happen. And it just so happened. One day I was planning on going to her house to work on a computer and she had called me on the phone and we had cordless. You know, back in the day when there were cordless landlines there was no cell phones, yeah.

Daniel Moore: 15:45

Those are those ancient relics. We had some of those and it rang. I answered it and it was hers. I was sneaking around corners trying to talk, real quiet and whatever I didn't know it. But Michelle had picked up the other handset and was standing in the front yard listening to the whole conversation and next thing I know the front door's busting open and she's running and yelling at me and I've got a phone flying right into my chest.

Michelle Moore: 16:09

Oh, wow.

Daniel Moore: 16:10

And I'm like oh, I'm like. I am in trouble.

Kim McIntire: 16:15

As you should be.

Daniel Moore: 16:16

Oh yeah.

Michelle Moore: 16:21

And that was just the beginning of many problems. Really at that point, and I think you know the biggest lie for me that really did me in was when he was very dishonest about I wanted to have a baby and he had said, yes, let's do it, but then prior you know, before we got married, I was all for it.

Michelle Moore: 16:37

But once we got married he didn't tell me that though, but I think the part that really hurt me the most is he went into the doctor to get fixed and I was like, no, we're not doing this, but he actually talked me into signing it because he lied to me.

Daniel Moore: 16:54

I manipulated her, yeah, and it hurt me.

Michelle Moore: 16:58

It hurt me really bad because I really wanted another one. I wanted ours together and in the long run it worked out because we didn't need another one. But you know, it was the whole part of it. It actually there was so many things of dishonesty with him. It just slowly killed me because the previous marriage I'd been in was the exact same thing and I never expected Daniel to do that to me. So I put him on a pedestal, which I shouldn't have done. But I literally to the point where I started becoming friends with a gentleman and uh, before you go for that, go that far.

Daniel Moore: 17:34

One thing back on the, on the kid thing.

Daniel Moore: 17:39

You know it's for us. She says that she realizes now that that was not to happen anyway, so she's she's given the forgiveness. But I don't want any couple out there to think that that's going to happen every time, because there are times where I don't think a spouse might be as forgiving as she was. That was a very serious situation that I did and that's something that no single spouse should ever take that decision on their own, especially to the point where they lie and manipulate the other spouse into thinking they have to do it, making it happen and then just leaving it to whatever for the consequences. You know, I'm very fortunate because God came in and fixed all of that part later. She's forgiven me for that.

Kim McIntire: 18:25

Absolutely.

Daniel Moore: 18:26

Some people hold grudges though, yeah, and if you're, you know, if you're married to somebody out there that holds them grudges. That could be a bad situation.

Michelle Moore: 18:34

Oh, but I did, and she did hold them for a while.

Daniel Moore: 18:36

I did for quite some time, but I'm very fortunate she still doesn't hold that grudge against me today, right, so go ahead.

Michelle Moore: 18:44

So with all that, there were you know other things. But I got to the point where I just really couldn't stand being around him, like I didn't want to talk to him, like I didn't want to talk to him, like he tried. But I was like, oh, you're just going to try now because I'm so mad. So I turned to someone else and I at that time become very dishonest to Daniel. I was talking to him, texting him and all this stuff. He had no clue, wouldn't think I would ever do something like that.

Michelle Moore: 19:10

So then the affair happened and then we started pretty much. I started lying to him all the time and I feel, you know, I look back now and I was like what in the world? Who was this person, you know? And it got really bad. But you know, we never let our children really know what was going on until the day I said I'm moving out, wow. And that's when everything just kind of changed for us Well, actually for Dan, because we had lived so many lies. Neither one of us really knew each other. Dan would never talk to me, he would never open up, we couldn't have a communication like I can tell you how I feel, and everything like that he would never tell me, he would never talk to me. I didn't even know a part of him.

Daniel Moore: 19:57

I had no idea. She would tell me a lot of times she would say that she felt like I had this deep, dark secret.

Michelle Moore: 20:04

Yeah, because he wouldn't open up. She didn't know what it was.

Daniel Moore: 20:06

And she told me many times I don't know if I really know who you are. And so my personality is I'm really laid back and it's what. If you're familiar with the color code I know a lot of people aren't but I have a lot of white in me, white personality, which means I can go into a room with thousands of people and I can go in there and I can sit back in a corner in a chair all by myself, not talk to one person the whole night. I can stay there till it's over, get up and leave and I've had the blast of my life. I mean, it's just, I don't have to talk to anybody. You know, I don't have to really communicate. I'm just perfectly fine, just being in peace with myself back in the corner somewhere.

Daniel Moore: 20:47

Well, the downfall to that kind of a relationship is communication is a little bit more difficult. Sure, because, like, if I do have secrets or if it is something that I feel, like if I'm going to open up to her, she's going to get mad at me, and then I've got confrontation. So I can do confrontation better now as I've gotten older, but back then confrontation was an issue for me and I didn't want it, and so people that have white personalities, like I do, they'll just clam up. They won't say nothing, they'll just okay, this will work itself out eventually and it'll be fine Eventually. I don't have to worry about it, We'll get past it and everything will be fine, you know, and so that's what I did for the majority of our marriage, not realizing that I was majorly, you know, killing her relationship because she's not that type of a personality, right? I mean, she wants to know what's going on.

Michelle Moore: 21:38

Yeah, I'm that deep thinker, I want to know what's going on with him and I give my everything to him because I'm sincere, like if you're going to be my best friend, I want you to be my best friend. You're going to know everything about me, right, and I don't let a whole lot of people know everything about me. So he was my one and I'm like you need to share that with me. But I think, too, is now. You know, I look back and I think that was very immature of me. You know, I expected him to be something that I wanted and didn't learn his personality, even though you should have talked to me.

Michelle Moore: 22:13

Yeah for sure, but still, you know you have different personalities, so I mean you have to learn by communicating to each other, like you know. Give me some time to talk about this and I will Absolutely. But you know I had the affair and you know we literally I don't know how many times Stan drove up by the house up there.

Daniel Moore: 22:32

Yeah, I found out where he lived. That was not a good thing.

Michelle Moore: 22:36

I was like driving up there checking and seeing if he was there, you know. But yet.

Daniel Moore: 22:40

I felt like teenagers all over again.

Michelle Moore: 22:41

He realized, you know, it's going to take prayer to get this to work out. And I've been down that road with my first husband I'll go to church, I'll change, I'll go to church, I'll go to church, I'll change, I'll go to church, I'll change. I don't know how many times. And I was just like yeah, no. And. But the night I was supposed to move out, just something changed in my heart and I was like you know what, let's give this a try And-.

Daniel Moore: 23:07

Well, I, even I went and looked at the apartment with her. She had already found an apartment.

Michelle Moore: 23:10

I loved him as much as I hated him at that moment. I loved him, and so when we did, that's when we decided, okay, everything has to be hands down, we have to have honesty and communication. Did it come to us right then of everything? No, we had to work hard at the relationship to talk about it, because this is a new thing for him with communicating and you know, and the honest part was, is he being honest to me, with me, about other things, the same as him? Like, is she being honest with me? He had to trust me Right, and you know, I think it was what Probably 2010. Yeah, we renewed our vows. It was what probably 2010.

Daniel Moore: 23:55

Yeah, we renewed our vows. It was about two years later.

Michelle Moore: 23:57

Yeah, I think that's really when Cut to that point and then you know and I don't mean to say this, but I am going to say it anyways but you know, I grew up in church and I played church. You know I didn't have that intimate relationship. I mean, I knew God was supposed to be the center of it, I thought he was, but I really didn't take it serious. It wasn't until I started taking my relationship serious with Christ did I ever, you know, really start seeing a change in both of us, in our marriage.

Kim McIntire: 24:28

I really feel like that's the missing link for most couples. Missing link for most couples Because if you aren't in a personal relationship with Jesus in a personal relationship my thought about a personal, or how I would describe that is is Jesus part of your day? Do you talk to him, Do you walk with him, Do you listen?

Daniel Moore: 24:52

for him.

Kim McIntire: 24:53

Do you respond to him, and if that's the kind of relationship you have, it can't be contained. It ends up flowing out of you into the people around you, specifically your husband or your wife. And so, as things were changing spiritually, that is when the shifting happened in your marriage, with honesty and communication. I'm just assuming that that was really the key to the shift.

Michelle Moore: 25:22

Yeah, Well, and you know, if you have a personal relationship with God, you have to work at it. Oh yeah, it's the same as a marriage, absolutely your marriage. You have to work at it. So I mean, that's where we really learned like, okay, he's going to give, I'm going to give, we're going to communicate, we'll meet in the middle if it's something we don't agree with. But I mean, for the most part now, when he was talking about us, literally read my mail. We both think a lot alike. It really is a scary thing.

Kim McIntire: 25:52

Yeah, that's what happens when you live together so long Apparently so. Everett and I are total opposites in our personality, but we do think alike, and it's just the longer you grow together, especially if Christ is the center he brings us into this like-mindedness and a single purpose and a single focus to honor and please him. So you do sort of begin thinking more alike than you used to.

Michelle Moore: 26:18

And I was going to read this because one of the questions you were asking, let's see, about honesty being the foundation, and I looked at it as you have to be authentic, yeah, and you have to be genuine. And you have to be authentic, yeah, and you have to be genuine, and you have to be transparent and truthful, Because when you choose dishonesty, like we did, your spouse is robbed of knowing the true you. Honesty challenges and encourages growth and our depth of our relationship. Transparency builds a strong foundation in marriage. I wrote those because I was really. It spoke a lot to me in our marriage, you know, and I wish we would have had this from the very beginning. And what's crazy is we did, we just chose to do ourselves like being the selfish people that we were and it really honestly, I go back and I just I mean God's forgiven me for it, but you know what, where would we be at today had our first day of our marriage been looked at so differently? And you know, honesty and communication at the very beginning.

Michelle Moore: 27:30

So, now I just look at him and I'm like what are you thinking? And he's like you tell me.

Kim McIntire: 27:36

Don't you know what I'm thinking?

Daniel Moore: 27:39

I can see you looking right through me.

Kim McIntire: 27:40

We tease each other all the time. I love that.

Michelle Moore: 27:43

It's so, so good.

Kim McIntire: 27:46

I think that's wonderful.

Daniel Moore: 27:46

Yeah, I think you know people. Something that I want to share about marriage that I think people don't realize is when we get married, we're practicing for the marriage of Christ.

Daniel Moore: 28:00

And everything that we do here on earth, from the time that we say I do and as we go through our marital relationship until it's time for God to take us home. You know we are practicing for what's coming up next. This marriage has nothing really to do with what happens here on earth. It does relationally-wise and it does for having companionship and, you know, fulfilling God's purpose as a couple. All that stuff does come into play. But the big picture of this is we're supposed to be working through this marriage to the effect that someday when we get to heaven, we should have it perfected by then, because that's the whole goal, that marriage, supper of the Lamb, and we get there and we become God's bride. That's what that whole thing is all about. This is a reflection of what's going to take place that day. I think if people can actually look at their marriage through those lens, I think that they would probably have a lot different walk through their marriage here on earth.

Kim McIntire: 29:00

That's so good.

Daniel Moore: 29:01

Because, as a Christian, especially because our goal here is to please God Right, that's the thing that we're supposed to be doing is pleasing him, fulfilling his will and purpose for our life and everything that he has for us to do, and a big part of that is our relationship and our marriage. You know, that is a God-ordained institution. That's very biblical, and so I think that if we can just change our perspective as couples while we're here on this earth, married to our significant other the other best person that we could ever have in our life and if we can actually change our perspective on that and understand how God looks at that through His lens, then you could. I mean, there's no limits.

Daniel Moore: 29:43

You know, you can have the best marriage that you could ever want.

Daniel Moore: 29:47

And if we follow that. But it's just the world gets so entangled into marriage, relationships and friendships and just busyness of life, jobs, just all the stuff you know, trying to raise kids, and there's just so many things that puts distractions in there and Satan likes to throw a little bit of irritation and frustration, other stuff like that into the mix as well. And so when you have to deal with all of that, a lot of times it's hard to stay sanctified through the week and you look for your Sundays and your Wednesdays so you can get recharged, you know, get your Jesus back in you. You know, but that's not how it's supposed to be. We're supposed to keep Jesus in a seven days a week, 24 seven, and it is possible. You can do that.

Daniel Moore: 30:31

It's all a mindset, it's all in priorities, it's all in how much you want to work on your marriage and how hard you want to push through those bad decisions and those bad times that you have. God can help you through all of that Absolutely. I mean, we are a walking testament. If it wasn't for God, you wouldn't be sitting here talking to us right now. That's true, I can guarantee it, because we literally. She was looking at an apartment. There was a time that she told me that she hoped that I hit a cliff going to work and totaled my Jeep out and killed me. Oh, my word, michelle.

Kim McIntire: 31:05

I mean, and believe me, she's not that way. That doesn't sound like the Michelle I know at all.

Daniel Moore: 31:08

But look what bad relationship scenarios will do to a person. Oh for sure you know, Especially when you're hurt and you're angry.

Michelle Moore: 31:16

Yeah, it's like you know, Absolutely.

Kim McIntire: 31:17

Say things that you don't mean and I know she didn't mean it then either.

Michelle Moore: 31:21

Oh, I did.

Daniel Moore: 31:21

Necessarily At the time. I think she didn't mean it, but I didn't want to hurt my Jeep, you know. But yeah it's. You know, when you go through these trials and these tribulations with marriage and you get to a situation where there's probably a legitimate hate starting to come up and a hatred for the person that's supposed to be bringing you the most joyful fulfillment in your life and your marriage, at that time it's real easy to start thinking Satan comes in and he's just like think this think that, say this, say that you know he's got that little puppet on your shoulder.

Daniel Moore: 32:00

And obviously when we're walking those, when we're walking that walk where we're just going to head and get a divorce and we're just going to go through with it, most generally, you know, nine times out of 10, god's not involved in that anyway. Right, and because obviously we should never look to divorce as an answer. We've been through it but that's not really the thing you should be contemplating. But whenever we do contemplate that, you know Satan plays a big part in that usually.

Kim McIntire: 32:25

Yeah. So what I love about your story is God didn't waste any of the pain.

Daniel Moore: 32:30

Right.

Kim McIntire: 32:31

He's redeemed it, and you guys are now impacting other couples. You won't even know this side of eternity, who's listening to your marriage podcast? Who? Well, you will know the people that sit under your counseling, but a lot of times, the people that struggle the most or have the most challenging things to overcome are the ones that God chooses to use to help others, and it's that beautiful redemption story that I love to talk about, and what the enemy meant for evil. God has turned for good in your lives, and then, when God does that, he multiplies it and it impacts so many other people, and so I just love the honesty and the transparency that you guys are bringing to this interview about. We did lie, I cheated, I wasn't honest, we were unbalanced, we weren't walking close to the Lord. You know, when people begin to own these things, that's when healing can happen yes.

Kim McIntire: 33:37

When you just can say this is wrong, this is wrong, I'm wrong here, I own it, I confess it. Lord, change me. He can do it, he can do it. And so just I would love for you guys to just speak some encouragement into our listeners.

Daniel Moore: 33:56

Sure, there's a few things here that I would like to share from my point of it. You know, honestly, when we look at encouragement for marriage and that kind of thing, the place we need to go to is the Bible, amen. We don't go to friends, we don't go to relatives. You know, pastors are great. I mean, they can help in a lot of situations but God's holy word is really where we need to go, amen. And I've got some truths here that I've put together to share with the audience for this. First of all, god values truth in the inner being.

Kim McIntire: 34:32

Yes, he does.

Daniel Moore: 34:33

In Psalm 51, 6, it says Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb. You taught me wisdom in that secret place. So this verse reminds us that God delights in truthfulness, not just in our words, but actually in the depths of our hearts, our very inner being of who we are. So when a marriage is rooted in honesty, then it becomes that place of deep trust and spiritual intimacy that God expects us to have in our marriage. Secondly, speak the truth in love. Ephesians 4.15,. Instead of speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of Him who is the head, that is Christ.

Daniel Moore: 35:11

Truth should never be used as a weapon you should never do that. But it needs to be shared gently and lovingly, and couples struggling with honesty can be encouraged to not just to be truthful but to approach truth with grace and kindness, and because we know that there can be a good truth and a bad truth. Because there's some things that are true that we don't want to hear because it's not a good thing, and that can be a good truth and a bad truth. Because there's some things that are true that we don't want to hear because it's not a good thing and that can be a trigger and you know, like, when Michelle finally was truthful with me with what she did, when I was truthful with her with what I did, I didn't expect a good response from her when I was honest, you know, and I don't think she probably expected a good response from me. But in all reality, to work through all of that, you've got to use grace and you've got to use love and be honest and out, you know, out, go, spoken about it and upcoming with it all in order to get past all of that. So that's another important step.

Daniel Moore: 36:07

Also, integrity builds trust and safety and Proverbs 10, 9, it says whoever walks in integrity walks securely, but whoever takes crooked paths will be found out. So when we walk in integrity, it causes safety in a relationship when both spouses are committed to living honestly. It establishes a strong foundation of trust. We can't trust somebody that we think is a perpetual liar. That's right foundation of trust. We can't trust somebody that we think is a perpetual liar. And Michelle and I really were at a point where we had to work through a lot to is she being honest with me or not? Am I being honest with her or am I not being honest with her, because once a liar, always a liar. You always hear that statement made you know from the time you're a kid and there is a lot of truth to that. In some cases Some people just naturally lie and so you have to get to a point beyond where you can actually gain that trust back. That takes integrity.

Kim McIntire: 37:02

Absolutely.

Daniel Moore: 37:03

And within your own self, and so that's something you have to work on. Number four confession brings healing.

Kim McIntire: 37:09

Yeah.

Daniel Moore: 37:09

James 5, 16,. It says Therefore, confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. And this verse encourages couples to be open with one another, something that we learn the hard way Not just to confess wrongs, but to also pray and walk through healing together. I mean, that's a very important part of that. Vulnerability can open the door to restoration. And so those times when we're vulnerable and we actually allow each other into each other's space or each other's yard, as we'd like to talk whenever that happens, then you can start gaining that trust back and you can start seeing that integrity within each other, and that starts that road to healing. At that point. And then number five is love rejoices in the truth. It says 1 Corinthians 13, 6,. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. True love is rooted in truth.

Kim McIntire: 38:06

That's right.

Daniel Moore: 38:07

That's where it comes from. If a couple desires a love that mirrors Christ, it must be built on honesty, even when it's hard. Absolutely there's things you're going to go through. That's difficult. It's going to be hard to navigate and we probably aren't going to know the answer. We probably aren't going to know the direction that we need to go, but we know who knows that's right. And that's where we need to go is to God, our King, and let Him come in and navigate all of that for us. So did you have?

Michelle Moore: 38:37

No, you actually. When I read yours, I was like oh, these are really good. You're like I can't top that.

Kim McIntire: 38:44

There's nothing more encouraging than the Word of God. That's right.

Daniel Moore: 38:47

Word of.

Kim McIntire: 38:48

God, and so we would encourage our audience, our listeners, be in the Word of God and these scriptures that you have shared tonight. They are foundational for a—we talked about what is a successful marriage. That will make a successful marriage If you don't just read the.

Daniel Moore: 39:11

Word, but you live right.

Kim McIntire: 39:11

You live it out, and you can't live it out without the help of the Holy Spirit. So ask the Holy Spirit, do this in me. I can't do it without your help, lord, and he will help you. That's right, we know that's true.

Daniel Moore: 39:22

Let me give you four more points here for couples that are actually going through problems right now.

Kim McIntire: 39:27

Yes.

Daniel Moore: 39:28

Because Michelle and I have fixed our problems, We've got God on earth, we haven't taken frying pans after each other in a while, so I think we're good. But there's couples out there I know that's listening right now probably that are walking through a tough time. Yeah, and you know. Here's a few things just to keep in mind. Number one pray together regularly.

Kim McIntire: 39:48

Yeah, Very, very important. Oh, that very important.

Daniel Moore: 39:51

Inviting God to bring the hidden things to light and help you both walk in truth and grace. That should be the prayer that you're praying at this point. Create a safe space, because a lot of people, when they have problems and they want to be confrontational and they want to do it spontaneously and that's not a good mix. You can't catch the other spouse off guard like that. You need to have a safe space where both of you can convent and feel like you can share your heart without a fear of judgment or punishment.

Kim McIntire: 40:21

Right.

Daniel Moore: 40:21

Because if you don't have that environment around you then it's probably not going to. You're not going to finish the conversation, True. And it's just not going to happen, and so that's another another thing to keep in mind Seek wise counsel. If you can't figure this out on your own, there's plenty of pastors out there and marriage mentors, you know. Find someone that can help you. That's wise. I would prefer a spiritual counselor, obviously biblically based.

Kim McIntire: 40:51

Right.

Daniel Moore: 40:51

It's the best, but you need to find someone that can help you navigate those deeper struggles that you're having, that you just can't get past, because some things we just can't fix on our own. We've got to have some help, not only from God, but from some other wise people. Right and fourth, the final thing remember that God is a restorer. Yes, he is. Even if trust has been broken, he is more than able to rebuild anything that was lost. That's so true, and Michelle and I is a walking testimony of that. Yeah, because our relationship today, 23 years later, is just phenomenal. It's way above and beyond what I ever would have thought it would have been. It's beautiful.

Daniel Moore: 41:31

And it's just it is. It's a beautiful thing, and so.

Kim McIntire: 41:42

Yeah, I mean just walking alongside you guys in ministry and you know, I didn't know all of your story until, I guess, six months ago when I did an interview with you. But it's hard for people to believe.

Kim McIntire: 41:53

If they didn't know you, then Like I didn't know you then I only know the Daniel and Michelle Moore of you know. I met you, I think, three or four years ago, and what I've seen is just the love for each other and the love for Christ that emanates from you, and it's just so beautiful to see what the Lord will do. And so you know, I have this on my heart for anyone who's listening, who is struggling that don't lose hope. That's right, because God is no respecter of persons. What he will do for one, he will do for another.

Daniel Moore: 42:27

He will.

Kim McIntire: 42:28

And so you know there's always hope for another. He will, and so you know there's always hope, and so that's you know. We're just really believing that God's going to use this podcast to encourage and listen to it with your spouse, share it with someone that you know may be having some marriage struggles, because this is a testimony of redemption, and we love how God is just weaving that story through a lot of the interviews lately.

Daniel Moore: 42:55

Yeah, I'm excited to hear the rest of the marriage episodes. You do I am too.

Kim McIntire: 42:59

Yeah, you guys are out interviewed too. We have one coming up in a couple of weeks after yours is released, and I thank you both so much for your time.

Daniel Moore: 43:09

Well, thank you for having us on again.

Kim McIntire: 43:11

Such a blessing, such a blessing, such a blessing. I'd love to close praying over the marriages of our listeners.

Daniel Moore: 43:17

Yes.

Kim McIntire: 43:18

Father, God, we come to you in the name of Jesus, in the power of the Holy Spirit, lifting our listeners to you, God, every marriage we lift to you. We ask you God, where there is brokenness, bring healing and restoration. Where there is despair, bring hope. God. Where there is distrust, we pray you would grow trust. Where there is dishonesty, God, grow honesty. Lord. Where there is miscommunication, we pray you would grow communication. In the name of Jesus and Father, we ask this that your name would be glorified in marriages, God, that children would see a mom and a dad who love one another the way Christ loved the church. Lord, Jesus, we just pray and ask a blessing would be upon every couple that makes up our listening audience.

Kim McIntire: 44:14

We speak Jesus over marriages, we plead the blood of Jesus over marriage. And, god, we speak victory to every battle that every couple is facing. And, god, we trust you. We know God, you have taken what the enemy meant for evil in Daniel and Michelle's life and you have turned it for good. And God, you can do that for any person who seeks you with a fervent heart. So we praise you, god, we thank you, we believe you're at work even now in this prayer as it goes out into the airwaves. Lord, may your Holy Spirit fall on every single listener. We love you, lord, we praise you, lord, we thank you for the gift of marriage. It was your idea, god, and it was beautiful and wonderful, and we thank you for it. We pray these things in the holy and beautiful name of Jesus, our Lord, Amen, amen. Thank you again, guys. It's been so good to have you.

Daniel Moore: 45:16

You're welcome, thank you.

Kim McIntire: 45:17

Thank you again for being here today and thank you for joining us in this episode. Just a quick reminder that the Rise Up Conference 2025 is going to be held August 1st and 2nd at the Keter Center near Branson, missouri. All the information about conferences on our website is going to be held August 1st and 2nd at the Keter Center near Branson, missouri. All the information about conference is on our website. I am so excited to share. We have a discount promo just for listeners, so use podcast 15 when you sign up and you will get a discounted rate on your conference ticket. I am looking forward to meeting our listeners at conference this year. Once again, you can find us on our website at itstimetoriseuporg, and there you'll find our social media platforms. May God's grace and peace be with you In Jesus' mighty name.